I had an approximately one hour phone interview with systems programming hiring manager. The hiring manager had a thorough knowledge of how systems applications were used in the organization and had a good grasp of the technical material. We had a pleasant conversation. He was sorting through the resumes he had received, picking through the candidates that had only listed buzz words. His choice was based on selecting candidates who had more systems programming experience vs applications programming experience. There was mutual agreement that I was not an exact fit for the job and there were probably other candidates better suited for the position.